Really Important Fictional Things

Feminist Crumbs (10 Things I Hate About You)

March 30, 2022 Season 1 Episode 23
Really Important Fictional Things
Feminist Crumbs (10 Things I Hate About You)
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

This week we talk about the 1999 10 Things I Hate About You. As Avery so aptly puts it, “These were the feminist crumbs we subsisted on.” That pretty much sums up how we feel about the plot, but we adore the characters and get into why. We also talk about new and old content from Amy Schumer. Avery talks about the“horrifying” and “visceral” movie Freshand Rosey updates us on the disappointing How I Met Your Father finale. And we wrap it up with Netflix’s top 10.

Next week we’ll cover the origin of the teen comedy.

Some topics covered:

Thing we trailed:

  • Is It Cake? — Netflix
  • The Adam Project — Netflix

Where to stream:

  • Life and Beth — Hulu
  • Fresh — Hulu
  • Severance — Apple+
  • Marvelous Mrs. Maisel — Amazon Prime
  • How I Met Your Father — Hulu
  • The Drop Out — Hulu

As always, please hit us up with questions, suggestions, just to say hi, or god forbid any concerns (jkkk if you’re concerned we’re concerned, def let us know). Follow us on socials @theriftpod, and you can email us at theriftpod@gmail.com.

Episodes drop every Wednesday. See you next week!

Avery:

Welcome to really important fictional things. I'm Avery.

Rosey:

And I'm Rosey.

Avery:

and this is the podcasts with the two long title that's both serious and not. We analyze movies and TV like they're real because movies and TV change our reality. And what we watch affects how we think about ourselves, our relationships, our jobs, the world. It's like, pretty important, you know,

Rosey:

it's really important.

Avery:

So this week, we are going to be talking about the seminal classic 10 Things I Hate About You. Spoiler alert, you know, if I don't hate, hate,

Rosey:

I don't hate it, but I don't not hate it. Yeah, so this will be fun.

Avery:

I'm excited to find out and then, on top of what we watched, we're talking about the movie and then we're gonna revisit Netflix for the top 10 At the end of the episode. Here we go. Here we go. All right. So once you watch this week, Rosie,

Rosey:

I watched random things. I started life and Beth, did you have you seen anything about

Avery:

that? I've seen this on Hulu, and I've not been attracted to it. Yeah,

Rosey:

I wasn't either. But so many people are recommending it. I was like, okay, so I watched like to for those of you who don't know it is why can't I think her name Amy Schumer, Amy Schumer's new show on Hulu. And it's like, a drama D. I think it's supposed to be a comedy, but it's like sad.

Avery:

And well, who's the guy Michael Cera, isn't it?

Rosey:

Yeah, who I haven't even met yet. I'm on episode four. So I don't maybe he shows up in episode three. I haven't met him yet. It's slowly watching her. Like the premise of the show. And the trailer is just like she's broken up with her boyfriend and taking life by the balls. But like it took her a while to break up with him. I was like, I'm so we're on. We're not in the first 10 minutes of the first episode. And we haven't broken up with him yet. Which was annoying to me. I don't know.

Avery:

We'll get rid of the boy. Because we knew that was the point. And they make really, I don't want to invest in this. I know it's going away.

Rosey:

And they make him intentionally, like they're so obviously a terrible match that you're like, what is the point of this?

Avery:

And it's very odd.

Rosey:

I don't know. I don't like it. I'm only curious to finish it to see like, what's the what is the point being made is right now, I don't know. You don't get it? Unless it's just like live your life.

Avery:

It just didn't. I don't know. I don't know. I feel that Amy Schumer anymore. I feel like Amy Schumer was really really, really relevant at like a particular moment in our culture. And it moved real fast.

Rosey:

You know what I mean? I completely agree became dated really quick. I felt crazy that even seeing that she did a thing. I was like, wow,

Avery:

I mean to I was like No need.

Rosey:

I felt that I feel kind of bad. Yes. But yes, I'm felt Yes. Same. It's

Avery:

weird. And her sketch show was like so amazing. Yeah.

Rosey:

I don't love sketch. But I watched some of that. Yeah,

Avery:

I don't either. And I thought it was really funny. Well,

Rosey:

we talked about we've talked about this many times. But yeah, she was a moment in time. She like captured that moment in time really well. And then I was like, now you don't get it anymore.

Avery:

Yeah, we literally you and I watched train wreck and then we and we like died about how amazing it was. And then I think we watch it not even a year later. Yeah,

Rosey:

watch it together. We

Avery:

were like, This is bad.

Rosey:

It was weirdly unwatchable. All of a sudden, yeah, super bizarre.

Avery:

I think maybe women just moved really fast. Because I think it was right around me too. When she was big.

Rosey:

I think so. And then the way the jokes were told, yeah.

Avery:

Everything all of a sudden is like it's like the veil was pulled from the world's eyes really quickly. And you could see what was wrong with everything.

Rosey:

Yes. And it was still about the way women were supposed to be and her like not choosing to be that way. Whereas now I'm like there's not a woman. There's not a way women are supposed to be right and I feel like we like that was like Ba ba ba ba bum Yeah,

Avery:

I mean this is a relevant conversation to 10 Things I Hate About yes it is. Bookmark this listeners will come back to this conversation.

Rosey:

Did you watch any What were you watching?

Avery:

Every time you asked me that it drops out of my head. Oh, I watched fresh.

Rosey:

Oh did so we talked we talked about that on the podcast. We did we Yeah, not you brought it up and you were like so Sebastian sands like everywhere and doing this thing. Oh, like I was like, I'm interested. Yeah. So you watch it. So it's a movie.

Avery:

It's not a show. Not a show.

Rosey:

I don't want you to spoil it because I can't spoil it. Oh, god. Okay, I think I should watch it. Yeah, well. I trust you and if you don't think I'd really watched it, then you go

Avery:

for it. No, I think you will love it. But it's also horrifying. But I think you'll love it

Rosey:

horrifying and what kind of way I viscerally

Avery:

I don't know I think you'll love it. Okay. Such a good mashup of hyper real realistic and completely ridiculous. Okay, I'll

Rosey:

watch it. Oh, Watch, I'm writing it down.

Avery:

Okay, you should watch it because I do really want to talk about it on the podcast because it's, it's literally changed my life. Okay? Which sounds really intense, but like,

Rosey:

I've changed your life. It changed your life.

Avery:

I've made different life choices since I've seen it. In the last week. Well, yeah, week and a half. Oh, yeah, I think I seen it already. Lastly, maybe not.

Rosey:

All right, written down. We'll be back. Stay tuned next week.

Avery:

Update on some severance. It's not it's getting worse. Oh, no, it's really lost. Its steam and like, I'm just like, I just want to know what happened. Yeah, keep throwing random shit that I don't care about. And I'm just like, Please give me something more. And it feels like there's not much more to give. So they're like, spreading it out. You know? And

Rosey:

I feel like shows you that sometimes when though like reveals not very good. Yeah, I

Avery:

know. It's making me worried. Yeah.

Rosey:

I hope the reveals really good.

Avery:

And also now I'm just kind of like hate watching it. Cuz now I'm just mad. Like, I just want to know what happened. So you're now you're making me sit through these hours of content that I don't care about. Similarly, I

Rosey:

felt similarly about a very different show which marvelous Mrs Maisel season just came out. Yeah. And finished. Yeah, the whole time. I just no different than this, like, give belt because a plot cause of character choice. I mean, not only Amy Sherman Palladino. Oh god, she just undoes her characters. Like, the strategy appears to be let's undo the character so that we can build them back. But we just watched that growth. So watching this person fall backwards, and not just one it was like five characters started acting like Season Two them, and it was season four. Is that interesting? So it mostly just wasn't interested. And things weren't going well and made us all mad. And you're basically looking at her thinking. Yeah, well,this is your fault.

Avery:

Cuz you were mad last time.

Rosey:

You're always mad. Yeah. And then your behavior is exactly the same, then you're shocked that this is happening to you yet again. I don't know what

Avery:

Amy needs to go to therapy.

Rosey:

Yeah, I mean, it's a downer, right? Maybe Maybe. Are these are people that like she's always around?

Avery:

She's trying to fix them through. Yeah, but she can't because they're not fixed in real life. Yeah. Or it's her either way. Being writers really vulnerable.

Rosey:

I'm now sort of thinking about writing a book and keep taking notes on character and stuff. But so quickly, like, Oh, now that sort of my friend or sort of my cousin, like, I have to change it more again. Oh,

Avery:

because you intentionally want to not make it close to someone you know, not too close. Yeah.

Rosey:

Yeah. Or they just will be I mean, write a draft Rosie, this is where I get hung up. And then I don't do any like, I don't write anything.

Avery:

Just write anyone. All right. Exact. Yeah. It's hard. So hard. It's really hard. You've done more cumulative writing than me. I think in terms of pages written. Maybe in your own pages. You're at that whole like 60 Page pilot. Yeah.

Rosey:

You wrote a movie you wrote produced a movie?

Avery:

Well, the short but I also wrote the the full length movie, but it left. I know you liked it. I never got very far. But

Rosey:

someday that'll be a big release on Patreon. You can

Avery:

read our half written scripts. If you have it signed NDA.

Rosey:

We have to get our rights. put our name on them. Anyway,

Avery:

I just remembered what else I wasn't sure. Okay. I watched their nose. Oh, okay. Is that what it's called?

Rosey:

I don't know. But with what's your face?

Avery:

Some you say fried. I want to say like Amanda, Amanda Seyfried, and it's the drop out. That's what it is she held it like three feet away from the mic is trying to be it sounds like an old creaky door in a haunted house. So I watched the drop out it is oh, Laura. Our guests from last week told us or told us to watch this. It's very good. The first episode was like a little hard to get through, but oh my god, it is. It's it's got me it's got me hooked. It's so good. I love it. People love it. I've

Rosey:

heard only good things.

Avery:

I don't know that you will. I

Rosey:

don't I'm not gonna watch it. Because the

Avery:

main character is very ambiguous. Whether you like I don't know if I like or not. And I don't know if I care. And I have such hard time with that. You won't like it.

Rosey:

No, I'm not gonna watch it. But, but I'm excited for you. It looks like a lot of those things I feel that way about I think are incredible. I'm just not interested.

Avery:

Yeah, I think it's cool too. Because it's a woman. So

Rosey:

it is that is interesting. Oh, How I Met Your Mother finale.

Avery:

Oh, good. Check in our How I Met Your Mother corner.

Rosey:

I mean, how I met your father

Avery:

how I met your father.

Rosey:

No, I No, no has pitched doing this like, okay. The problem is it is How I Met Your Mother. It's exactly the same flaw. Yeah, almost exactly. Hilary Duff runs into Robin Schabowski. That was interesting, good Robin is she? She was just she's famous now and whatever. And they have like a moment because she's she's was a news anchor and show her character. So Hilary Duff's character recognized her from the news. And then they like talk and she saw a TED. That wasn't meant. She didn't. She was just giving advice. Gosh, I assume she was the advice was sort of like, sometimes the person you love is right under your nose, but you're not ready for it. Something something which I think was like, supposed to be Ted. Yeah, Barney. So is

Avery:

there someone that's right under her nose has a crystal ball.

Rosey:

They can't they have sat they got together. And they break up. I don't know what other words like a few hours later oh

Avery:

my God in a

Rosey:

way that that was just so TV that I didn't believe like, I didn't believe it is only believable. These two characters were really that horrible at communicating which people like that exist, obviously. But watching them. I was like watching a group of 35 year old emotionally stunted people's like not actually that fun now. And I feel like we've seen this a million times.

Avery:

Yeah, you know what I'm ready for I'm ready for the like, 2022 kind of meta version where they still do that. And then they're like, this is why we're doing this, right? Yeah, that would be fun.

Rosey:

And I guess are 30 not 35 but still just not as

Avery:

emotionally stunted. 30 year? Yeah, but I also feel like we speaking of patterns that you can Yeah, out of I feel like what's happening at 30. Now not to cut you off. Yeah, I feel like what's happening at 30 now is that you are kind of like you see your patterns, and you're like halfway out of them. But then you still fall back into your shitty patterns, but you know what they are. So that would be funny. If they're like, I know this stupid. I know. It shouldn't be a problem. But it is. And I can't tell you why. So we have to break up.

Rosey:

And then do it and be like, Hey, I did that thing again. You know, the thing I keep doing it and being upset about it. I did that. I just did that. And then the conversation we had

Avery:

Yeah. And then the friend would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, you got to date other people for seven seasons and get that pattern out of you're like shit, and then you can go back to pins when you've worked it all out. Right? I wrote how I met your father.

Rosey:

That's how they should be writing it. They get to write at 2220 22 version 2000 Whatever show

Avery:

truly, I would watch that though. I would too. And every relationship that she has, you would see her solving and growing like a little bit of her bullshit,

Rosey:

which maybe they'll do but the tone isn't there. And the breakup was so she gets scared when someone commits too fast. He is like in it and doesn't take a work opportunity for her. I mean, that is terrifying, terrifying. But it would have been more interesting to watch them have that conversation and maybe they still break up. But instead she is just saying this is too much. What the hell and he's like, Fine, screw you. And she's like, Fine, screw you. And you're like, and then they're done. What? Yeah, and then she goes to go back and he's making out with his ex girlfriend. Hmm. So I'm not saying that couldn't wouldn't happen. It just isn't

Avery:

interesting. It's not interesting. It sounds like it's not interesting the way it was framed. Or the way I didn't think about it.

Rosey:

Someone else might like it. I'm not gonna come back Season Two I'll check in on that then season four. Sure. It'll still be that's it that's it's one

Avery:

that's when they will be rich and we'll have our own studio and we can have like a nice pashmina run. You know what I mean? Watching us decorate that will also be funny. You guys got to tell your friends all about this podcast so we can make that advertising money and get a good studio. Okay, good sponsor. It's all on you. Yeah. You're in your court now. balls in your court.

Rosey:

Oh, my God. Okay. The 1999 10 Things I Hate About You.

Avery:

Classic, absolute classic. The internet is in love with this movie. That is correct, right. Yeah. We don't know how we feel. I mean, I don't know how I feel. I can't read Rosie's face, which is the new thing. Well, you

Rosey:

can't read it because it's not clearly saying anything yet. Do you want to start you said this was a formative movie for you? And it's another one of your core movies.

Avery:

Yeah, it is. I'm gonna just gonna start at the end. Yeah, let

Rosey:

people know this movie. At the

Avery:

end. I have. I've written these were the feminist crumbs. We subsisted on.

Rosey:

Okay. We're on the same page. Crumb,

Avery:

literal crumbs crumbs that were made with like high fructose corn syrup. So you thought that they were tasty and you wanted more, but really, they're just making you fat. Like she read Sylvia Plath. So now, like, she's a feminist now, and she like tries to push them away a couple times. And like, at the end when she's like, and you can't just like buy me something every time you get mad, and you can't just show islands. You

Rosey:

can. Yeah, it's very weird, charming. So it's fine. It's very weird.

Avery:

Like, just because she talks all this feminist stuff and mentioned swords this very 90s to like, just because she mentions the word feminism. Now, this is a feminist movie. Yeah. And she's angry. If you look at the at the like, story engine of this. It's still all just, women are something to be one in the game of sex, and they're the gatekeepers of sex. And they decide when and how to dispense it and you need to trick them into it.

Rosey:

Both AR and VR. They are pawns. They are but pawns. Well,

Avery:

the pawns, but also judge and jury and executioner. So that's interesting. I guess that's true. And I think that's what a lot of what fuels misogyny. Like you see it in Cameron's character like he's immediate love there for no reason, no reason at all. Then she becomes this like, elevated on a pedestal thing many of us possess. She

Rosey:

has basically no character anyway. Yeah, I

Avery:

do like that exercise. I do a lot to it. But but then as soon as she realizes that she's actually interested in another guy, he's immediately pissed at her and yells at her. Right? Yeah. It's like you're so shallow and a bad person. And then she kisses him. And he literally says, I'm back in the game.

Rosey:

I didn't understand why she kissed him. Well,

Avery:

I think she kissed him because she realized that he was. It sounds ridiculous, but he was like, genuinely interested in her. Yeah. Whereas the other guy just winning her. Well, I think the other guy didn't even care about her at all. She was like a person that he just like, showed his modeling pictures to and like model Yeah, I guess front of you know,

Rosey:

yeah, no, I agree. I guess I meant winning her. Like it was one more thing to add to his resume of things about himself that he

Avery:

liked. Right. And then you also find out later that he was just trying to fuck both sisters, which is absolutely disgusting. Disgusting. He's just a disgusting person. Can you imagine it's grown? I don't like

Rosey:

any of the men in this movie. No, I think Patrick is is a Heath Ledger. So

Avery:

no, but this is what I mean about the feminist crumbs. It's like, Cameron became the Chrome that she could actually subsist. Yeah. Whereas she realized the other guy was literally all air. So she was like, I want someone I can kiss. Yeah. And you seem like the what's the word? What's the phrase? The least of both yells the best of both. You know what I mean?

Rosey:

Yes. 100%. But

Avery:

why can't I people always say about politics.

Rosey:

But the the worst evil, the

Avery:

lesser of two evils. So Cameron was the lesser of two evils. Yes. And arguably so was Heath Ledger's character agree that the two evils were a guy or no guy?

Rosey:

Yes. I think it was. I agree. And in a lot of ways, Heath Ledger was in almost always he was the best human amongst those men. Yes. I wish they had written in a reason that he wanted the money. Yeah, more than just he seems to not have that much money. Like he seems poorer than those other guys. Right? Yes. But it would have I think it would have helped with some of the like, his motivation. At the beginning. It still was shitty, but I got him just being like, okay, idiot you're gonna give me for like he was thinking of it as like I'm playing you other dude. Not like cool. Fuck this other this woman over for no reason. But I wish we had had a little more motivation from him on why you wanted the money. Yeah. And then it would have also been a little more satisfying when he didn't. Did he give it back?

Avery:

No, he used it to buy her the guitar. Yeah, that was fine. That was nice. That was nice. That was nice. Mm hmm.

Rosey:

It just you're Yeah, crumbs. It was like the just the bar set just so low. Like you all placed a bet on us. You treated us like idiots we could just manipulate around to play a game like we're bent their vending machines, if we put in the right combination will like get the sex. Yeah.

Avery:

Like No wonder I was fucking paranoid and sad and angry. All the time. I never trusted any, like anyone's motivation and nothing these men say. It's true. And honestly, like, talking about really important fictional things. Like it's kind of true in real life, like watching movies like this that are like, this is a feminist movie. And so guys watching are like, Oh, this is what feminist girls want. Right? It's still like that. And the results is we live in a world where I have been manipulated. A lot of times yeah, people that I was like trying to be, like honest and vulnerable and

Rosey:

100% it sets a terrible precedent for everybody. Yeah, like it. I mean, we are women. So for that's the viewpoint I was watching this app, but that's a very good point. If you're a guy watching this, you're like, I don't know what to do either. Okay, here's the here's an example. And it's touted as this touted whatever, a lot. It is this like, feminist movie. That's how it is described. Yeah. And I don't, I didn't have that feeling watching it, although watching it and comparing it to other movies like now that we're watching a few is interesting because this is 99, Miss Congeniality 2000. And Legally Blonde was 2001. And this is the same writers as Legally Blonde. Yeah. Who also were involved in something else.

Avery:

How's funny. Okay. House funny, I never saw. I've seen it a lot isn't good. It's very, yeah, there's

Rosey:

a lot of problems in it as well. It's sort of a similar takeaway to Miss Congeniality. I feel like where it's sort of saying you can be both. I mean, it's likely one same.

Avery:

Yeah. But that was in like, 2007. Yeah, it's further along. Now, but you're totally right about the timeline. And it's, I think we also need to separate the plot from the characters. Yes, because I think the plot is pretty traditional such Shakespeare bullshit. Yeah, it's Taming of the Shrew. And apparently, shaming of the Shrew was much, much worse.

Rosey:

I've never watched much worse. Yeah, no, but I read article,

Avery:

like, starve her and stuff.

Rosey:

Yeah, it's horrifying.

Avery:

So take that plot and put it to one side. Okay. Dated, take the characters and I think the characters for the most part, art feminist? I think so on the way that presented are feminist. Because the guys that are being dicks are presented as clueless. Yes, you know, and then cat is a cat is a very unique, very feminist character. I agree. And I think that's why this is such a seminal work for me and for a lot of people, because up until now, she didn't really exist in cinema. And if she did, she was a side character and kind of a joke. You know? Yeah, she

Rosey:

was just the angry asshole. Yeah, I guess angry bitch. Yeah, like is wearing black and not

Avery:

right. And usually, if she is important to the story at all, she's made over she's had a makeover and becomes like a different version of herself. Well, I

Rosey:

also liked that even though she didn't dress the way Bianca dressed. She dressed in a way she seemed to like and enjoy. She wasn't hiding her body the whole time or anything. She was still Yeah, her hair would be down and curling and fun and her camo shirt and or bell bottoms. Yeah. I don't know.

Avery:

It didn't feel like and so in the way that Miss Congeniality, when we talked about it, she was like, had internalized sexism. It didn't feel like she had internalized sexism directed at herself. I think she had some sexism against Girly Girls student. Yeah. But I didn't feel like she was limiting any part of herself to fit into some box. That was anti. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree with you. She just was like, I opt out. She was like, I don't want to be in relationship at all with any of this. I opt out, and I'm over here. Yeah.

Rosey:

And it seemed like that really was because there's multiple comments about how she used to be more like Bianca when she was popular in that group and stuff. So is it my read of it? Was that everything that happened with the deck, whose name I can't remember? Anyway?

Avery:

Jelly, Donny. Joey. I think it was Joey jelly, whatever, the guy who we're gonna call him

Rosey:

who slept with her and then was horrible. Yeah. It seemed to be after that was her turning point was her mom leaving the catalyst.

Avery:

She's a senior. And I think it happened around the same time because their mom left three years before so she would have been a sophomore or going into sophomore year. And then the John, Johnny Johnny jelly thing happened in her freshman year. Okay, so it all happened around the same time.

Rosey:

That makes sense to me. But those things happening. You just be

Avery:

like, okay, by done, I'm done here.

Rosey:

I kind of wish

Avery:

Get to Sarah Lawrence.

Rosey:

I'm glad she's going to Sarah Lauren. Yeah, get out of there. Out. And I believed in her intelligence and her strength and her interest in the worlds. And that was huge. Like that character did not exist. It was almost Katie Holmes, did

Avery:

you? Yeah, yes. Fucked up. We're not Well, no, I'm glad that didn't happen. And I also I just liked how she was. And this goes down to acting. I really liked her. She was like, she wasn't like performative about her stuff. She would just be like, she would like toss an angry line away and walk away. Like she didn't care. She truly didn't care. She wasn't trying to impress anyone with it. It was like really, her worldview and she was stand strong. And I really liked that.

Rosey:

I knew she was not performing for anybody now including herself. And then

Avery:

when she was performing, she was still kind of performing for herself. Like when she got really drunk and got up on the table and I loved that I loved it too. She was just doing whatever the fuck she wanted. She was

Rosey:

drunk and dancing. She's not doing a striptease all of a sudden she wasn't like watching it. I kept thinking this isn't even a sexy dance. She's just, I mean, she was drunken on a table so but like her moves themselves weren't that sexy? Yeah. Smooth. She was just moving her body around a

Avery:

fun fact, though. She got her. Once in dance with me she was in.

Rosey:

Oh, yeah. See the last year? Yeah, she got

Avery:

cast and say last dance because of that. I like a white girl can move at all. Oh, that's really funny. Yeah, no, but I agree. And like even that the fact she was doing it in the middle of a crowd. She wasn't doing it for them. But she was still enjoying that they were there. And she just was very powerful in her agency and what she chose to do and not do.

Rosey:

I think that's why not to bring the plot back in too much. But I think that's why her taking him back for lack of a better phrase. felt okay to me, because it felt like a choice she was really consciously making and she makes very conscious choices. Yeah. Like she wasn't tricked into taking him back because I liked I thought about this a lot. And I liked that her poem comes before the guitar before the gift. So he was apparently planning an apology thing, but she like beat him there. And I liked that.

Avery:

Yeah. Do you think he was planning on or do you think he went I thought it was her.

Rosey:

I thought that was right after class. Oh, yeah,

Avery:

you're right. So it was like already in the meeting, but then she did. Oh, that's funny, which is almost

Rosey:

a year because you're thinking, Oh, you both had a plan of I'm gonna get this person to do what I have to do. That's

Avery:

a good point. I like it. Yeah. And to your point of she made a very conscious decision. The poem is such a good plot device, because you're literally watching her make that decision. Like she's that's her. You just saw our thought process. Yes, I'm mad at you. You did the wrong thing. I still like you. Fuck. Fuck it. Yeah,

Rosey:

his. I mean, the acting wins everything in this movie because His acting is also phenomenal. Yeah. And watching his face while she reads the poem was also great reaction at the end.

Avery:

I think that's the best acting from him. I think that scene and they bolt. So they did that scene in one take. And she started the crying was not in the script. She just started crying. And so I think he was probably quite moved.

Rosey:

Yeah. Well, similarly, I read that the when he does the big musical number. Yeah, he improved a ton of that. Yeah, people think her laughing is also really happy. Yeah, like, what

Avery:

are you doing? You were now parently they started dating a little bit after that surprise, man. I had some chemists

Rosey:

I would be dating every co worker I had if I was co worker. You're in the movies together? Yeah. Cast cast mates.

Avery:

I would want to I mean, I fall in love with everyone all the time.

Rosey:

Playing in love.

Avery:

Ya know, I'd be

Rosey:

in big trouble.

Avery:

Yeah, and I would definitely, yeah. Can you imagine in Castle, someone that you didn't like? Like, sometimes I feel like I can see to act which are those two actors who are like, and every time I just think about it would be like to kiss someone who like smelled bad to you. Like to have someone spit in your mouth that like didn't taste good. But you also have to do evil they do? Yeah. Oh, oh.

Rosey:

Yeah, they seem to like each other. They also kiss more than just the last kiss. Right? And I quite liked that too, because there's a lot of pressure on that. And also it makes it feel like makes it feel like it's an ending or the culmination and that's it. The whole thing. The whole goal is just this kiss dramatically. They kept thinking about she's she's mad she's all that because that was before this right. Whenever Freddie Prinze Jr. was doing these movies. Yeah, it was all those movies is that type of ending? Yeah. Builds builds, build kiss. And yeah, and I liked that. I mean, they sold the kiss.

Avery:

Congeniality is kinda like that. It is yeah. How do you get to see intimate

Rosey:

and Legally Blonde just doesn't know because at all, they're just like, by the way, they're gonna get married.

Avery:

I agree. I want to see the kissing. Give us more kissing. Yeah, I like the scene where they're doing the paint. You know, I want to go to one of those paint places. So fun, great song. love that song. Music. The music's very good. And then their kiss at the end is like quite good. Like when they just start making out in the hay. And then I love that she pushes them often offer and then they go back to the paint. Yeah, it just seems so real and intimate. I agree. And like a true connection.

Rosey:

I agree. And I feel like believable teenagers. Yeah, these two teenagers wouldn't not kiss for the whole movie until that. Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense.

Avery:

And then right before that was like, this is another reason why I think it was so important to me. And I like needed to believe that someone like Heath Ledger's character, like existed when I was in high school, right before that when he's like, Oh, yeah. So you just like, push everyone away in the very beginning. So you never disappoint anybody. And she's like, Yeah, and then he's like, Yeah, too late. You didn't you never disappointed me. Amazing. You fucked up every one I mean, like, that's exactly what everybody wants.

Rosey:

We want. So what we want to hear everybody,

Avery:

everybody, but also truly women. Yeah. Scared of men.

Rosey:

Okay, I have a couple questions. Yeah. For you. Yes. What did you think of the no dating rule?

Avery:

By me? There were some things in this movie where I was like, Okay, I guess this is just what we're doing now. Like, that's really fucked up when you think about it. And like when they're going to that party, and she's like, well, cats not going to the party. So you can't go to the party. And then it's like, well, there's going to be underage drinking there. And like, all this stuff going on, and all he cares about that she's going to get pregnant. And then as soon as cats going, she's allowed to go, that doesn't make any sense.

Rosey:

It doesn't make any sense. He also has so little faith in his own daughter. Yeah. And that was so irritating to me. Although, sorry, go ahead. I was just, I know they could get taken advantage of, but it felt like instead of explaining things, or giving them tips to get out of situations or whatever, to just do the stereotypical like, shut it down. I'm going to lock you in the tower.

Avery:

Yeah, what? So there's one line from CAD that I think provides like a psychological background to that when she says like, stop trying to control our lives because you can't control your own. Yeah, and I think that's what's going on with the dad is like he lost his wife and he really doesn't want to lose his girls. You know?

Rosey:

That could be right. I just feel like they didn't they get into that enough for me.

Avery:

Well, apparently the script was really dark, like much darker than what came out like her friend who is obsessed with Shakespeare had had like multiple suicide attempts and talked about how she like really just want like she wanted to go and join William and then the mom thing is really fucked up and they only mentioned it twice. They really talk about like, where did she go? Why?

Rosey:

And then also the dot the Bianca has the pearl necklace.

Avery:

And she says she's not coming back which makes me think she's dead. But then later mom laughed Yeah,

Rosey:

for what for who all of you all the time we're not contacted so many questions about them would have made more sense of the mom was dead. Yeah, for the story. I don't really get and if she's not a mom like a woman to leave her husband for whatever reason. Okay? Yeah, totally good. Fine support you. Do it your teenage daughters is a whole different choice to me. Oh, a lot. Maybe you have a reason? Yeah, but what is it and it's not good. It's not good. I mean, that's the only ones I can come up with are like you have a serious addiction or mental health issue that you're gonna go sort out and come back, but gone forever. No, I don't there's no good reason

Avery:

his mom in an institution. Yeah, like what? What happened to mom?

Rosey:

What happened to mom?

Avery:

Man, I really liked that the description of this movie is Cameron falls for the girl of his dreams, but she is forbidden to date. Which is like not what the whole thing like I guess it's kind of what happens but it's not anything to be really well. I

Rosey:

feel like it's a story about Kat. Yeah, okay.

Avery:

Yeah, no, I agree back.

Rosey:

So back to Cameron. And his bet though, when the three men get together it's like this whole little cohort. It's extra sleazy that it's that he plants the idea with Joey Johnny. Yeah, and I think it's Joey Plansee idea gets him to fund it I guess isn't Michael Michael's a whole other

Avery:

Michael is the one that gets the backer Yeah. Gets

Rosey:

the backer. And then they set it up. And then they like double cross. Like going to Patrick to be like, No, but really, it's for me. Yeah, really? You're doing this all to get me the trophy. Thank you so much. And the whole thing, both women $30. I understand inflation, but that is low. It was $30.30 I wrote down these two women are only worth $30. This is sad. He

Avery:

upset 250. Right. I literally wrote down 150 adjusted for inflation. I didn't look it up.

Rosey:

And then at one point Patrick's like $100 a date. Like he's just which

Avery:

is a prostitute. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's literally me. Which they

Rosey:

only pick him because he seems scarier than her. But to be able to. He's scarier

Avery:

than her. But then also, I didn't quite get what they were trying to do. That I loved when they were like, also cat only likes pretty guys. And he was like, Are you saying I'm not pretty? And they're like, Okay, thank you. Thank you like that's, yeah, what were they trying to say that you are pretty but we don't know if you're okay with being pretty. Oh,

Rosey:

I don't know. It's very weird. Are they trying to have a scene of just like guys being able to

Avery:

there's a lot of gay panic in this as well.

Rosey:

I mean, women weren't supporting women. Either. There was no yeah, that was bothering me them. a lot so I

Avery:

read an article about this. There's one in Vox. There's one like, one verse. Yeah. Okay, so there's the the part about how cat doesn't support other women. But then at the end, she started supporting her sister. Yes. So they sort of like start to heal that.

Rosey:

I think that's I agree. That's how I watched it in the scene. And she's also a teenager, so I remind myself of that, but when she when Kat is telling Bianca what happened with Joey Johnny, I was watching it thinking, you could have told her this a long time ago. Not necessarily when it happened to you like it happened to you. You don't owe anybody this story. But when he started showing interest in her, I didn't. I guess I understood it, but I didn't totally I didn't like the idea of I wanted you to figure it out for yourself. Because especially being her little sister, you could have still been like, Hey, this is information I have. Do with it. What you will I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not dad. But I don't know. What did you think about that?

Avery:

I don't know. I didn't that honestly didn't hit me in the same way. Oh, and I think she just thought of her little sister is like, her little sit like not a real person. Yeah, this just my little sister. And I think she probably didn't. Also Where's Mom, this goes back to where? Because there are a lot of dynamics around now. She's very parental FIDE as like the mom figure for little sister. So then I can see also not wanting to like talk about sex with her. Yeah, especially I want to try leading of yourself. I don't know if it was me. I honestly would just pretend that never happened. I wouldn't want to talk to anyone about it ever. That is so humiliating, humiliating.

Rosey:

Yeah, it wasn't. Again, she was what 14 when it happened. So she's 16. Now I wasn't watching it thinking like you messed up. I just was like, I think the scene would have been shown differently now. Yeah. Which was interesting to

Avery:

how would it be different?

Rosey:

Well, I mean, even in like sex lives of college girls Bella fairly quickly. I mean, she ignores what has happened to her as well. And then eventually is like, I think I silenced another woman, like maybe I can get support or talk through this in some other way. Rather than just being like, I'll walk away. I can't it's too much. And I think we weren't given that wasn't like, shown to us as an option very often. So it was believable that 99 Cat wouldn't have the language or feel comfortable having that kind of conversation. But I think in a show now, if someone who attacked her or or treated her that poorly, was then going after her little sister, I think it would have been she would have tried to either get the guy to back off or tell her or tell her friend. I just think there would have been more language around it. Unless just oh, I didn't know what to do. This guy's really bad now that he's hurt you too. I'll let you know.

Avery:

Yeah, no, I get that. That makes sense. There's a lot of weird stuff that they did.

Rosey:

To was got. I wrote Cassidy gets so salty. Her friend. Yeah.

Avery:

I think her name is Chestatee. Oh, chastity. Yeah. rocastle. Chastity, the girlfriend. You're right.

Rosey:

What's Gabrielle Yeah.

Avery:

Yeah, I know. She immediately flips on her. Yeah, you

Rosey:

lost your chance by fascinating.

Avery:

There's a lot of there's an interesting stuff with intersectionality of feminism and racism and this. Yep. The black teacher being like, you are an upper middle class white girl. Yeah, I don't think that was and then get out of my class. Why

Rosey:

didn't why didn't he ask her to get out? I don't know. It was very bizarre. him sort of being an equal opportunity. Shut down. Teacher was fine with me. Yeah, but he still picked on her. Yeah.

Avery:

I don't know. It was weird. But I guess she picked on him back because again, when he assigns that thing, and she's like, this is a good thing. This is a good thing you're doing she's probably given him a lot of shit.

Rosey:

I like that. Good. I thought that interaction was good. Yeah. Okay, wait, speaking of teachers the flashing. Oh, God,

Avery:

that is another thing that I don't it's inexplicable. It's in excess. And then then she just walks away and the teacher doesn't even have an express it looks like he gets flashed every other day by his students. Left and right. is nothing new for students

Rosey:

going on all she it would have been better if she punched him. Yeah. Like what

Avery:

I like to think is that she's like owning her sexuality. A thing that she wouldn't for him. Yeah, you know that I

Rosey:

also that's all I could come to was I wrote what the fuck is the flashing Jesus? I just kept thinking, Yeah, her owning her body was all I could come up. Yeah, she didn't. She also then was like not treating it like an overly precious thing it was using. I've got a tool here.

Avery:

There it is. Yeah, I don't know. It's bizarre. so bizarre. I mean, I guess it's another example of a transaction. Like you. He's using himself. So you had her and she's using himself using herself at a certain point. I don't know. Super odd. Super, super odd. Very weird. I also love that the teacher refers to him his upper middle class, upper middle class looked way different in the 90s than it does now. Oh, my god, yeah. Oh, rich, although that school that they shot out is a real school in Tacoma, Washington. And it's a real public school. Oh, yeah. Things are different out there.

Rosey:

Well, I think that every time I watch sex education every time I watch it, because I do watch it on repeat their school. I mean, they're in England, so I don't know anything but it is. It's a castle Do they just build everything like a castle out there? And so all this everything

Avery:

is English. English. There's a lot of sexual harassment happening in general. Like this guidance counselor. The guiding is not a safe person. But this is a stacked cast. So good. This is like six months before westwing came out. Oh, Allison Janney. This is big for her. This was the first American movie for Heath Ledger. Big deal

Rosey:

for Julia Stiles and Joseph Gordon Levitt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good casting director. She

Avery:

won an award show awards for good. Thank God. She didn't ask at homes. That's wrong. She liked it. It is wrong. We liked it. The gasoline read she talked about how she really liked Katie for but Katie was going off to Dawson's Creek. Someone else. She almost picked Kate Hudson. But Goldie Hawn, her mom read the script and said it was bad. So she shouldn't take it.

Rosey:

Fascinating, fascinating thing about other movies.

Avery:

I know she was in First Wives Club. Did you see that? That was

Rosey:

in my head. The first thing that popped into my head was overboard. I never saw that. It's horrifying to watch. Asking yourself any questions? Oh, I thought it was delightful. And then I said, I don't know like 10 years ago, 10 years ago, and just kept thinking No, no, what is she is a rich Jackass and falls overboard and gets amnesia. And he this is how they met Kurt Russell is a like came on the boat to fix something or something. So he knows who she is. She ends up in the water. The people in the boat with her her mom and her fiance or husband don't like her cars or something. So they don't claim her.

Avery:

Oh my god.

Rosey:

Or she can't be in jail. She must be in some kind of hospital. I don't know how Kurt Russell ends up getting her out of the hospital. But he says yeah, that's my wife to like, get back at her for being mean. So he brings her to his home with four Cree like crazy suns. Like and then is like yeah, these I can't believe you don't remember them. Versus this is your family or this would be a horror movie today. And it was a delightful rom com. She ends she stays with him. Like she finds out and then his suicide synthesizes terrifying, terrifying.

Avery:

Rosey needs a minute. Just thinking.

Rosey:

Okay, so I'm jumping to the she's drunk at the party. He takes care of her in a believable way. Yeah, so regular human got a human person being kind doesn't get her because she's very drunk. Okay, good move on to town that I've asked about that. But in well, what's your question? Well, you finish it. Okay. My thought is I liked that. He didn't kiss her but I also would have had the I would have been very upset if I was her right because so rejected rejected terrible 100 That's the worst what I was gonna jump to is his. I guess it's the an apology song dance. Yes, I did. I mean, he didn't seem that embarrassed, but I like that he was like, I will make a fool of myself because you felt a fool but you're not but but I'm matching your embarrassment like I'm trying to get somewhere with embarrassin is just a little thing to her one on one you'd be like Yeah, but you feel fine. And I want you to feel dumb.

Avery:

Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. I

Rosey:

liked that. I didn't think of that. This is why he does enough little things. Okay, you're not as bad as the other guys.

Avery:

Yeah, and he's done it well to me as well cast because you just feel safe his he's got safe energy. i

Rosey:

Oh, yeah. is absurd. Yeah, I smiled back the TV. Like involuntary

Avery:

That is funny. I mean, he's really good at it. But I also kind of felt like he and I don't know if this is acting, but there was also sort of a vibe where he seemed like almost barely interested somehow to be there. But yeah, it was good at playing the cool guy. But yeah, he definitely was like I'm gonna do this to be in an American movie. I can do other stuff, which I thought was funny. Okay, so going back to you didn't kiss her because she was drunk. So I read that in an article as well when I was looking at stuff after and I that I'd never even crossed my mind I thought he didn't kiss her because he was being paid to be on that date with her. Oh, I actually really liked her and didn't want it to be part of their transaction. Interesting. That was my first that I don't know that I'm right.

Rosey:

He but when he kisses or is the first kiss is the painful Yeah. And he's paid on to be on that date or

Avery:

no detention and they go Oh, right. Yeah, they

Rosey:

well first they go paddleboarding. Not paddleboarding it's paddle boating Paddle boarding is cooler

Avery:

Cycle boating

Rosey:

I have only been on those at Girl Scout camp.

Avery:

You know, they're fun.

Rosey:

They're fun for like 32 seconds and then you're very tired and you're stuck and you're hot in this plastic contraption I paddle boats they're hard

Avery:

to jump in and out of I've definitely flipped a paddle boat trying to get in

Rosey:

the most buoyant

Avery:

they're very bland but then to get in you have to like You're like

Rosey:

but first and then Yeah, it hurts because

Avery:

it's plastic

Rosey:

boats I don't like getting in and out of a canoe Rosehill pass on the boat no kayak maybe but single person kayak the paddle boards out paddle for I will do like yeah,

Avery:

no. So they she was not being paid for that. That was she initiated it with her tits out with tension teacher. Okay, I have a question for you. And I felt like this was dating it very intensely to 1999 Do you prefer fruit roll up Fruit by the Foot or fruit leather? Fruit

Rosey:

Roll Up Fruit by the Foot? Yeah, what's Fruit by the Foot?

Avery:

Fruit by the Foot is the one that's the rolling long. You want the long one right. And the paper fruit roll up is like a piece of paper. Oh, yeah. I hate it. Yeah, I hate it too. He asked for fruit roll up. And I was like, Who wants the fruit Rola for about a foot. Good question. Anyway, I just had a little flashback to like getting home from school and going get my fruit roll up. No, Shawn, what? Did you not have it? That's why I put in the fruit ladder because I thought maybe you know, that deck on his face looks like a finger.

Rosey:

Right? Looks

Avery:

like a finger gun.

Rosey:

I didn't. Yeah. Johnny, Johnny,

Avery:

Johnny Joey Donney

Rosey:

The don't know what to do with that character. I mean, he was the dick character. He was obsessed with his own modeling good. looks right. But then he was also I guess it just plays into narcissists, that he could just write on someone's face. And that seemed didn't fit to me with the rest of him that he just grabbed another person's face and started drawing on it. I guess he just doesn't care about other people.

Avery:

Especially not my guy. Yeah, he's a bully. Yeah. I mean, he is a bully. The reason why he's interested in Bianca is because he had sex with I really think what it is, is he wants to have had sex with both the sisters. It's nasty. And then also like, maybe part of them is trying to get revenge on cat or something. I don't know. I mean, he was like 14 And she said that she didn't want to have sex anymore. And so he broke he broke up with her like, I know, multiple 14 year old boys that did that. At that time. It didn't mean that he didn't like that he didn't like her anymore. So I'm sure he has a lot of not reading too much into this movie. But if you just look at him as his own character, he probably has a lot of conflicted feelings towards cat Yeah, and maybe some of what he's doing Bianca is attention seeking for cat Yep, could be totally who knows.

Rosey:

I have written down she doesn't care she shot a person. Yeah, talking

Avery:

the arrow Oh yeah, she shot in the back and they just look at it and then keep going Yes.

Rosey:

stuff was the head even self aware that they thought it was funny like she cares so little about everything going on including the fact that she shot someone

Avery:

I don't it was something it was a device though because then later on the dad is on the roof and he like he's like boomerangs away some stretching thing that he was using and they both watch it go and then it comes back at him because it like hit someone else. I don't even remember that. Yeah, cuz I had noticed the arrow. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, look at it again. A lot. Just people throwing off screen is weird. super bizarre. I don't know. I think I think the 90s sometimes did we actually talked about this before the 90s. And like the early to mid 2000s had this weird, surreal, like alternate world thing going on with comedies? I feel like that's what this is. But I don't know. I mean, if it's self aware about it, what do you think it thinks is happening? Oh, the only thing

Rosey:

I would have taken from that scene was showing that Bianca also didn't care that much about other people.

Avery:

But so that the teacher also looks and is not worried about no one cares

Rosey:

about it doesn't really make any sense here Here's your right. I thought it was weird that Bianca just let them in her sister's room. And then the black underwear. Yeah, she wants to have sex someday.

Avery:

There's so many things that I watched in movies like this when I was in like middle school where I was like, Oh, I guess that's a truth of the world. Yep. And now I look back and I'm like, Who fucking put this in here? It means nothing. And then I was thinking what I thought I was like, You know what I do like my black. But it was also like a pair of Bikini cut regular cover underwear. It was not like was

Rosey:

just like all but

Avery:

for weird. I don't know. It's very bizarre. I have Heath in high school. lol he's so large.

Rosey:

He's so much bigger than Cameron. I know. He's a senior verse of freshmen. But it's enormous, enormous.

Avery:

He's giant. He's much bigger than Johnny Joe. Donnie person.

Rosey:

Johnny James Donnie. Agreed. That guy also Johnny James plays a jackass and so many things. I feel like I recognize him does like a jerk. character. He's good at it. Here's the question. Yeah, big question. Who? How did Heath Ledger get that band to go to prom? And then sing directly to her?

Avery:

I don't wait. What am I doing wrong? Yeah, he did singing to

Rosey:

her. He got her band. And then the woman comes out and sings directly to them. Oh, in the crowd. Oh, I missed that. I mean, he's a charming. He's a charming motherfucker. But

Avery:

yeah, that is impressive. I mean, he makes moves. He's way out of the League of this school. He's like in Australia for. got other things going on.

Rosey:

I also liked at one point someone says chicks can't play instruments or like some joke about how chicks can't play instruments. And then they cut to her at this club where a woman is the performer but no women are playing. And I was like, You're literally making the point of the bad joke. Yeah, we're female rock bands. Yep. There have always been women who could play instruments, right? But there definitely were female rock bands in 1999.

Avery:

Well, that's the thing about this movie. I mean, it was just, it was working with limited resources. It was like trying to paint a masterpiece with four colors. I needed more. I know

Rosey:

the other things I've written down but they said because I had to write down insurance doesn't cover PMS. Yeah. Run them. Dad is so sexy. You're covered nipples. Yep. Near flavor nipples. Yeah. beer flavor. Thank you. He can plow whatever he wants. Yeah,

Avery:

disgusting. Crazy. Yeah, there's a lot of really bad things.

Rosey:

But then they have really amazing film. Moments of the flyers. And the music is the flyers that

Avery:

is that song sexy boy by air on repeat in high school. I love so good. So good. Also, I was noticing all the plastic like the single use plastic. So much like she comes out and she's she has one CD and a giant plastic bag. Like girl.

Rosey:

She smashes so hard into that car. She really does. I mean, I would have I was on our side to hit it. He parked in not a parking spot in in one lane. He's an asshole. That was a hard slam. Yeah, that door is just fuck it's done. And they're both just laughing just upper middle class. upper middle class fools who each have their own car

Avery:

Let's see

Rosey:

Love the melodrama of Bianca, sadly sitting in her tire swing when she can't go to the prom.

Avery:

Yes, but I think that's beyond it. I didn't read that as this is Bianca of now. I read that as a vision of Bianca as a little girl. Oh, like

Rosey:

she was seeing her as a little girl. Am I really gonna take her dream away?

Avery:

Yes. God, God. That's what I was thinking. That makes sense. That girl at the party where she tries to kiss Heath, and he says kiss him. Hmm. This is another reason why I don't think that he didn't kiss her because she was too drunk. That girl was too drunk too drunk to be anywhere too drunk to be kissing someone and then they make a point he goes back and the guy thinks him again three times the guy thinks and three times. Yeah. So then when it got to he's not kissing her. I was like, clearly this movie doesn't give a fuck about kissing Drunk girls.

Rosey:

That's a good point. Or we care when it's someone we know. And when it's someone we know which is just so classic classic like and I have a daughter so I can talk about

Avery:

I once. Yeah, was it you someone once shared with me something where it was like if you tell me that? If you tell me that I wear if I wear a short skirt late at night and I go down an alley that it's my fault. If I get assaulted. Then really what you're telling me is make sure it's some other girl not me. Or something like that.

Rosey:

That wasn't me, but I agree with sentiment. Yeah, like take care

Avery:

of yourself and make sure it happens someone else and not to

Rosey:

you. Yeah. gets fucked up.

Avery:

Oh goodness,

Rosey:

I just saw a tick tock of a woman who was doing like a cell you know, it was like not what it was like a selfie version. And she saying I don't normally do this, but something weird seems to be happening over there. I'm just leaving work. I don't know. I don't know if I want to get involved, but maybe I should and walks over and just goes Jessica and the girl immediately it's like, hey, hey. And then so the person on the tic toc is like I can't believe we were meeting over there like Sorry, like whoops, long story like gets the girl away and then you hear going Thank you. I don't know who the fuck that guy is. He would not leave me alone. Who's like we got it. You gotta look out for each other. Yeah. Oh, like it

Avery:

her name wasn't even Jessica. Oh.

Rosey:

Yeah, yeah, and immediately I've heard stories like yeah, or but I like we gotta

Avery:

look out for each other. Just hold back or hair Heath. hairs so long. There's definitely

Rosey:

so much vomiter holding back.

Avery:

Also, if you held her hair he also may be in concert

Rosey:

because she had just

Avery:

vomit at a time I could have been there were many reasons for many really interesting reasons. Yes. Yeah, agreed. It does seem like a lot of effort for the money This was the scene where is it? I think if I had never watched the movie before this is a scene where I would have been like oh, this isn't for the money no cuz he's doing a lot throughout the whole Yeah, it's

Rosey:

he got

Avery:

but he's like chasing her around someone hair taking her right you know he doesn't

Rosey:

care that much about those other two guys get a younger

Avery:

buck. No. He like barely seems aware of.

Rosey:

Yeah, a few times he gives Cameron like some advice. Oh, in are they at prom? How did Cameron invite I guess? I had the same little button of a thing button

Avery:

of a man. Cutie Cute is button. Yeah, but tiny. What does he mean by she's without?

Rosey:

I don't know. I rewound and put on subtitles because I thought I just must have

Avery:

missed it. Yeah. What is it

Rosey:

supposed to mean to some deep without spark without gumption without? Like fill in the blank? Is it a

Avery:

fill in the blank? You're an adventurer. Choose Your Own Adventure and also choose your own sexism because that's just another example of Let's rank these women. Yeah, she has less than you. So I like you more. Like it's one of those backhanded things were in when we were in high school and someone said that to you. You would be like yeah, so I'm with Yep. And nowadays, like fuck you, buddy.

Rosey:

Also to get out of here. Amos. Like you're not like other girls. Exactly. There's a song called some girls. I think that's what they call by Hailee Steinfeld. I do love Hailee Steinfeld. And it is it's like I like all girls are badass as summer like this summer like this. Some of the best like yeah, whatever the tone of it is. All girls are great. That's not a compliment. Say or not like other girls,

Avery:

right? Get out of here. Yeah. And the movie does do a good job of like, I think Bianca is just as badass and cool and strong as cat. She just has a different way and 100 of the world. So

Rosey:

does the friend who's wearing like, garb from? Whatever

Avery:

William Shakespeare's Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I yeah, I don't know. That was pretty toxic.

Rosey:

But to your point about Bianca being badass punches him right smack in the face. That was very satisfying. Donnie,

Avery:

Donnie, Donnie. Yeah. Johnny, Joey. Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. And then when he calls Bianca selfish when Cameron calls younger, selfish, is it selfish? That she uses what she has in this limited sexist world?

Rosey:

No, I also don't think that's what he I don't know the way that conversation played out. It felt like he was saying, You don't like me? That's selfish. Like it didn't even make any sense. It felt like male entitlement.

Avery:

Well, I think he meant selfish because she was in on the like, plan with him and knew that he liked her but was really doing it so she couldn't be a Jimmy John either

Rosey:

way to answer a question. No, I don't think she's being selfish. No, no, no.

Avery:

And also, you don't even know this girl. You saw her for like two seconds and decided you're in love with her.

Rosey:

Projected everything you wanted and think a woman should be on to her. Yeah, it was also she she was fucking fine it

Avery:

French and also, why do everything fucking selfish? She does seem good at French. He is selfish because he's paying someone to take on another woman and be a fucking asshole so you can maybe date he's not even that's true. He's not even paying he's just a leech. On this system,

Rosey:

I don't like him get out of here. Cameron get out of here Cameron. He's a gym helper for

Avery:

shoot is a button sock off toxic soft boy if I've ever seen Okay, yeah, I said root of toxic beta. Yeah, toxic soft toys better

Rosey:

hate him. I'm not into him. I don't like Michael Aesop. fuck boy. That's what they're it's called soft boy but it is a version of fuck boy. Gotcha. Like the kind sweet version of it. You've talked about them forever. We just didn't have a name. Ah, I feel like you were at. I was learning about it was like this. Yeah, I know these people I know these people

Avery:

know you can't get past us.

Rosey:

Well, no you can't. And so here

Avery:

so now we know we know the stuff. We are not related I guess. Keep our hands go find someone else if it's not, you know, it's not gonna be me it's gonna be someone else. And in this case, I'm fine with it. Oh my god. We're trying to educate people, but they don't want to hear. Women are so easy to game in this movie. Like they in one hand, they make them so smart. And then in other ways, they're just so fucking dumb.

Rosey:

I agree. I agree. At one point, I started wondering if Bianca was playing dumb. Yeah, because it sounds it felt too unbelievable. This girl was this dumb.

Avery:

And the actress is just too smart. I guess she Yeah, she also auditioned for cat. So she definitely had it in or to do something else. And that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. So when he they've had their fight or whatever. And she's like in the store, playing the guitar, and then he's there at the book shop or whatever. He's legitimately stalking. Yeah, he's just following her around. He doesn't even the music store. No, that's great. Her eyes are closed. Yeah.

Rosey:

And he just hovers. It is weird. Bizarre. It is weird. It is weird. But it's just like so much more than weird. So that's why it's so funny that you said there's a lot of emphasis here.

Avery:

Oh, we get some platform flip flops. Did you have platform flip flops? No. When she's walking out at the end, yeah, I had a pair of blue platform flip flops with sparkly bands and they were one of my prized possession. They're incredible. And then at the end, I think it's at the end when they're kissing. He says like,

Rosey:

honestly say they're epic. They're kissing but she's seen the guitar.

Avery:

Yeah. And she says, You can't just buy something for me when you're upset or something. And every time you mess up every time you mess up. And he says, Well, maybe I'll just ask you to flash someone or you can't just flash someone every time somebody want to get my attention or something like that. So he clearly knew what happened. Anyway, I don't know. You're reminded me of the comment from Miss Congeniality of like, we can go out to dinner if we have sex after not like Soviet just like, can we not? Can we not tarnish this moment? Like Don't remind me about that?

Rosey:

Yeah, I agree. Because also then she said, You can't find something every time you mess up. And he also started listening the other instruments in a band. That was fine. It was fun. Funny. Yeah, just get there. Yeah, that was all we needed. Yeah, it was

Avery:

bizarre. I don't know. Did you notice the bloopers at the end? Did you watch through the trailer?

Rosey:

No, but I'm remembering that they were there now.

Avery:

Yeah, there's so cringe. There's so much. It feels like they like orchestrated a couple of them so they would have something. Also though you get to watch them like in the dancing scenes just like normal like in camera. Watching people dance with no music is so funny. It's hysterical. That was like one of the funniest parts while we're working on movie sets and seeing how the sausage gets made. So fun. It's hysterical.

Rosey:

I think that sometimes when I'm watching dancing scenes now, especially when it like matches the music so well, because maybe they play the song before to be like this is the energy or thing like even but there's a scene in shits creek where it's like such a coming together moment the family says I love you. It's the first time you ever hear the family say I love you. And they're like so into it. And the song is Oh, damn, I know the song. I have to look this up. precious love James Morrison. So this just matches perfectly. And Eugene Levy is like so into it and watch it just being like, you were doing this in silence. So all you hear is like the feet sort of on the wooden floor and they're like so. Yeah. Oh, my God. It makes me laugh

Avery:

every time. A big house party that's silent, silent.

Rosey:

I mean, that party was silent. She was dancing on the table and silence for thing.

Avery:

Okay, the last thing I have to say, call back to our favorite old buddy, Cameron James is on allusion to James Cameron. Is the internet it's on all of the trivia lists fast and it's supposed to be a nod to James Cameron. He's everywhere. This guy is everywhere. Guys. We don't even know you don't even know where he's gonna

Rosey:

He's pervasive. He's like a mold. And with that 10 Things I Hate About You

Avery:

Goodbye.

Rosey:

We are back with the march 23 Top 10 in the US on Netflix supposedly these are just people who have enough money to pay Netflix

Avery:

the top 10 People with the best contracts

Rosey:

but to start us off at number one isn't cake

Avery:

okay so I was not interested in this at all and then I was listening to the ringer dish podcast and they were like similarly wasn't interested in this at all and then they said it was great and all the people in it look good so I don't want to thank

Rosey:

all the people in it look good let's go trailer.

Unknown:

This is a bowling ball. And this is a cake you are all here because you are all talented at making cakes that look like everyday objects. Okay, and now that that specific Yeah, and earn you 1000s of dollars. Wow,

Rosey:

I can't even frost a regular Is it funny

Avery:

and I always like to win what I really good choice in

Rosey:

a world like this is built off of that personality

Avery:

look like others because they're so self aware about it. That guy was like this is weird. I do this and it's weird. I want

Unknown:

to approach people that best of the best at what I do. Judges here's how this works. What I do is holding an actual cake. Oh

Rosey:

this looks fine. Yeah. I want to be on it.

Avery:

Yeah, it looks like they're having a lot of fun.

Unknown:

In the three best speakers will compete for grand prize of $50,000. Really, really want to win that money. So much. Baking shows before I did this.

Avery:

It looks like an improv show. an improv show,

Rosey:

and that's why I feel like it could work. Okay, number two is bad vegan

Avery:

theme. Fraud. fugitive's? Yeah, I watched this whole thing is, it has nothing to do with her being a vegan. Oh, literally nothing. What is it about? It's just about a restaurant tore that gets into this really fucked up weird relationship and, like, taking advantage of Whoa, but like, maybe not like there's it's unclear how much she was, like, complicit in it. It's scripted. No, it's a it's a docuseries crime. Yeah, but it's like a recounting of something that happened. Not a follow along.

Rosey:

Very interesting.

Avery:

I really liked it. I thought it was really good. It psychologically is really interesting. It's, it's more about the dynamics of abusive relationships. And how do you find the line between like, well, she could have left at any time versus while this guy was controlling me kind of thing. Got it?

Rosey:

That is okay. I'm more intrigued by that than it being something about a vegan.

Avery:

I like it, especially cuz they're vegan. Yeah. And especially having worked in the restaurant industry. There was this whole layer to it that if you hadn't worked in restaurants you wouldn't understand at all because the restaurant world is just nuts. Like it's just not real life.

Rosey:

100% and I also feel like you there are industries we all like no are crazy, like the film industry. Yeah, of course. That's crazy. But you don't think about restaurants at all? No, if you're not

Avery:

sure. Yeah. Which is really fucked up that people don't think about their service workers but for sure you have no idea and I just understand more how in that context, how someone could accept some of the crazy stuff as reality because it's just so much crazy shit that happens totally

Rosey:

because I worked in a restaurant but it was not nothing crazy ever happened it was just like a burger place I think there's like a level yeah they're like once the restaurants at a certain level it's a different because no one was talking the chef was whoever was there that exam wasn't like there was not like a hierarchy there was not like a baker vibe there were no egos number three is good girls. I keep thinking about going back to but honestly I really have no no no Yeah, I can't seem Yellowjackets number four inventing Anna which we watch the trailer for already? I haven't checked it out. Yeah, I Oh,

Avery:

I heard someone say this as a status thing of Adam project. Yeah. at school or at school. At Work someone said they watch this and it was really really sad.

Rosey:

Oh goodness. I didn't know it was really really sad. Okay, let's watch the trailer because I like a lot of these actors.

Avery:

I think they said I don't know maybe overheard a wrong I mean, I don't know anything about it. So let's see. I have no there's no one even

Rosey:

look. There's Invisible drone No.

Unknown:

Stop the car. What's right

Rosey:

like action hero a

Unknown:

Flora This is me. Parallel contact me. Well, you know you've always said that you wished you'd met me earlier. Here I am.

Avery:

And this is not sad. Okay. No, they must have just said it's really good and with a sad look on their face to me

Rosey:

I didn't know he was a must have worked like a multi kid crazy.

Unknown:

Oh my god, we watch too many movies. Anthony Sacrae find him get ready to run

Avery:

it reminded me of supernatural at this music. Yeah, I'm pretty into this.

Rosey:

I'm gonna watch this movie. Yeah, I'm

Avery:

like, I'm excited. Yeah,

Rosey:

favorites, jiggling.

Avery:

Put some classic rock on classic rock thing and I love it.

Rosey:

It also has a bit of a Marvel energy 100% I know what you have to do. means that you say Mark refloat. Apparently as to according to what's your plan? I'm not gonna explain my plan to a 12 year old nerd with a plan but I know somebody who does I'm the godfather of time travel the Adam project. Very Oh, yeah.

Avery:

I'm pretty sure whoever wrote this huge supernatural in their logline like as part of their treatment.

Rosey:

Yeah. Supernatural was instead of supernatural time travel.

Avery:

I'm in. Yes. And the the brothers aren't brothers. They're the same person. Yeah, you're right. I'll tell you what.

Unknown:

You are the best part. Dean and Sam. Yep. To be so smart. That you get to be so dumb.

Rosey:

Even Sam? Yeah. And they're just at Pine Ridge motel. It

Avery:

is literally I wonder just supernatants Similar. Well, we'll

Rosey:

come back we'll investigate because we're

Avery:

gonna watch it afterwards these things now. Okay. Number six, the last kingdom. This is the fifth season of last kingdom which the Netflix original as alpha, the great defenses kingdom from Norse invaders. Fred, born and raised by Viking seeks to claim his ancestral birthright. So this is different than Vikings because we just talked about vikings

Rosey:

appears to be different. That's called Vikings. Yeah. Which I've gotten now. Two recommendations for Vikings. Really?

Avery:

Maybe we should watch it. I just want to point out how we just have a so much content about white people. Yeah, it's in the middle of it, sir. I want something else. Can we have something? There weren't

Rosey:

only white people,

Avery:

or the Vikings in the south. So

Rosey:

why are we watching the men here at this

Avery:

time? Well, yeah, there's this whole woman. There's this woman named Brunhilde, who apparently defended she's a British, and she defended her country. I think she's a Saxon against invading Normans. And she's like, revered. Why don't you have a fucking show that Brunhilde Come on,

Rosey:

because the people in charge. I mean, at least with Marvel, they literally said we will no one will come we won't make any money off of the Black Panther story for the Shang Qi story. So I mean, they're probably still I mean, we've proved it's been proven wrong, but maybe they still don't think the white audience more reliable

Avery:

and well, yeah, I mean, everybody knows what their it's like, you know how you watch a true crime show like you know, you're getting Yeah, watch. Vikings. That's that. I might watch this.

Rosey:

Okay, number seven human resources. I won't watch it because I just don't want to animation.

Avery:

Well, you don't like big mouth. Oh, no,

Rosey:

I'm mostly not interested because it's animation. Maybe

Avery:

it's a spin off of it. I also am not interested in this. I love the first couple scenes of the big mouth, but it got kind of weird to me.

Rosey:

Number eight, the black. Oh no, just black crab to end an apocalyptic war and save her daughter. A reluctant soldier embarks on a desperate mission to cross a frozen sea carrying a top secret cargo is less

Avery:

interesting. Are you interested in? Oh, well, just lately, the genres are Swedish and military movies. This is made for

Rosey:

Avery are they so is gonna be subtitles? It must be Yeah. Okay. You let us know.

Avery:

Oh my god, it looks so good. I'm excited. I'm very excited for you. I couldn't be

Rosey:

less interested. Number nine pieces of her.

Avery:

Some guy tries to rob them and then her mom like kills the guy or something. And then yeah, we should all theater pass. They've changed the picture though.

Rosey:

They do that with stuff constantly. Number 10 A walk among the tombstones. This is one of the ones that just isn't real 2014 Liam Neeson we're all obsessed with it right now today. No, we're not. No we're not the US is not watching this movie. A drug kingpin hires troubled X caught Matt scoter to find his wife's killers a hunt that leads to shocking revelations in New York's underworld. She can't tell I'm not interested.

Avery:

Liam Neeson though

Rosey:

I don't know if I've ever seen him. I haven't seen like a Liam Neeson movie like I haven't seen taken or any of those. So I have no real I guess I just like his vibe. I've seen him in Love Actually.

Avery:

Yeah, me too. i It's kind of weird. Again, I think maybe I should seek out taken

Rosey:

out to make that list of the things that we want to watch. Yeah,

Avery:

but there's like two lists. There's like the things that we want to watch and then the things that are like cultural blindspot.

Rosey:

Yes. Oh, great.

Avery:

All right. That's the list. That is the list. That was 10 Things I Hate About You.

Rosey:

List.

Avery:

Tell us what you thought about 10 things. Did you hate it? Did you love it? When someone really conflicted? Let us know. Please. We still are ambivalent. Next week, we're going to be talking about teen comedies.

Rosey:

The origin of them where they came from where they are now. What did we like? What did we not like?

Avery:

Yeah,

Rosey:

did optimism

Avery:

die? Yeah, did optimism. When did we decide when did capitalism decide teens needed to be capitalized on and what are we doing about it now?

Rosey:

We're gonna get into it. Yeah.

Avery:

So in the meantime, you can find us on socials at the RIP pod. You can send us an email at the rift pod@gmail.com.

Rosey:

And please give us a rating as well. Wherever you listen to podcasts. It goes a long way. And it's super quick. Do you do a little tap tap and you give us five stars? Tap Tap, tap, tap tap? Yeah, they do. Yeah, do it on all do it everywhere. Download the other as

Avery:

five channels. So you can just let us know the five things that you woke about it?

Rosey:

Yeah. Very good. And we'll see you next week.

What We Watched
How I Met Your Father finale
10 Things I Hate About You
Netflix Top 10